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Posts: 195
Joined: July 6, 2018
Posted: December 7, 2018, 7:22 PM
Daughter made it 5 months but gave in tonight. She never wanted to be sober so I guess 5 months was a good run.
She relapsed,I'm hoping that I don't also go back to more enabling. When your child is in recovery you try to help,try to be encouraging. Help getting them to appointments and mental health appts. Then you are told dont put more effort in to recovery than they do. I don't know what we are supposed to do. | ||
Posts: 478
Joined: November 9, 2018
Posted: December 7, 2018, 7:38 PM
So sorry Walkedon....I agree it's hard knowing what to do.
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Posts: 1764
Joined: June 27, 2016
Posted: December 7, 2018, 10:22 PM
walkedon - I hear you! Same thing going on. my son had a long relapse after 3 months clean. got a new job and was really good for 2 weeks until the dreaded paycheck. went on a binge from fri - wed. I had a short argument about priorities. he stayed home Thursday night. seemed completely normal. today he took his cash I was holding for next week. and he's out. that will last a day. what do I do about his gas getting to work next week? of course he will ask me to supplement until he gets next paycheck. the only thing I can do is to take 100 to pay me back, 200 to hold for the next week - which he will want a week early. I don't want him to keep 700 to blow on another binge. It hurts my brain to think about how he can spend in a matter of days until he is out of $, over and over, and NEVER look beyond the week he is in. he has been doing this for years.
I want to ignore it, but that will result in the same actions. I can try to give him a lesson in planning - "ok take only 40 per day, and blahblahbalbh….. words I am so sick of saying and hearing in my own head.... I can tell him to move out so he will be forced to figure it out... but he has done that. he has lived away from home for 6 out of the last 8 years and did not figure it out. He says he does not want to live on a budget. It is boring and miserable. says that he has to leave the house bc we harass him about money and ask him questions. says that he cant have a relationship because we make everyone uncomfortable, that he cant bring anyone here. he says "he trys and trys but nothing he does is good enough" He cant see that he is in the same boat as ever. the car he's driving needs work, he wrecked the truck and wants to fix it - but he wont save $ to fix it. (oh-next week he will)… no $ to move out. no $ for Christmas. when the car stops running, he will loose job, no job, no $$. everyone angry.... I'm sure you have all heard it. been thru it. I feel like if I do nothing it stays the same. If I keep at it, there might be change... but idk what tactical plan to switch to either. I have been thinking that addiction to drugs is different than addiction to alcohol, but I recently see it as the same. the same mental rut. the same pattern over and over. the thing that keeps me trying is that my son is not abusive and the idea that if I keep trying and get him to a place of independence, I will have my own life in retirement. Someone recently said her turning point was to be able to work thru her past anger and misconceptions, grudges, etc so maybe my son's key will be to see a therapist that he can work thru his day to day frustrations. I believe he had an average/above average childhood, but he definitely has some hang up about his relationship with his dad. maybe its bc of the recent years where dad is not happy with him -- but it is his own doing -- we react to his actions -- that is the part he can not see.... yup - if I pursue any actions, at this point, I will be working harder at his recovery than he is. my next thought is that keeping him afloat - job and car - is less expensive than letting it all fall apart and paying for the fall out. idk what to do either. just get thru the holiday.... soon it will be January! and my husband decided to work thru the holidays - even Christmas day. the over time is a good financial opportunity, and his mother had surgery this week... you can see he opts to make his own decisions and leave the rest up to me to deal with. I think he did not want to deal with holiday decisions so he decided to work - under the disguise of financial opportunity. I'm starting to see this more clearly all the time, even though my husband did a lot with the kids, he also worked a lot and does not 'bond' with people. he did not bond with his son. he thought working to afford things was the right thing to do. maybe my son has been 'waiting for him to come home to bond with him' for the past 10 years. kind of like 'Cats in the cradle'. of course it's not all 'dad's' fault. there's some twist in perception that my son needs to work thru. Guess he has to blame someone - it isn't HIS fault!! I am tired of 'coaching' everyone! It's complicated! This post has been edited by NyToFlorida on December 7, 2018, 10:27 PM | ||
Posts: 384
Joined: October 25, 2016
Posted: December 7, 2018, 10:53 PM
It is hard to know what to do. I did everything I thought I should and things I knew I probably shouldn’t. This went on for years and years. Repeating the same patterns over and over. I thought things would eventually change if I gave my son support and provided an example of normal. Instead I think things got worse.
I finally reached a point when I just couldn’t do anymore. I was an emotional wreck and being involved with my son’s problems was making me physically sick. One day I just knew I was done. I had to be done or his drug use would be the death of me. It has been almost as hard to remove myself from his problems as it has been to watch him destroy his life. Your daughter and my son are very much alike. Mental health issues etc. Part of me wanted to continue taking care of him until he figured things out and got his life together but after more than 20 years there didn’t seem to be any end in sight. The only thing he seemed to be improving on was manipulating me. He did all he could to continue with his business as usual but expecting unconditional love and unlimited money from his family. Unconditional love to him means providing all his wants and needs no matter what he does which was nothing but use drugs and make bad choices. I felt bad for him because at times he seemed to try very hard but would lose jobs for drug related / mental health issues or just because he didn’t like them. I don’t think he knows how to be normal. I think the drugs have maybe permanently altered his mind. No matter what happened it was never his fault. My help did allow him to maintain a halfway decent existence and kept him out of some trouble. It was exhausting and expensive. I did know where he was but most of the effort to maintain his life was my own. When I turned things over to him he sunk like a rock but he was on his way there even with my help. It was becoming too hard for me to hold him up. So now I am not enabling and leaving things entirely up to him. I don’t feel the outcome will be a good one. I constantly have a feeling of dread. But maybe a miracle will happen. -------------------- BUGS | ||
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Posts: 195
Joined: July 6, 2018
Posted: December 7, 2018, 11:17 PM
She is in constant crisis.Just when she gets something that works,a crisis emerges.
One of my biggest fears is pregnancy. Trying to get her to an appointment to get on some kind of birth control has been impossible. She has had appointments but some thing always goes wrong. Either she is in a pysch ward or too delusional to get to an appointment. She recently lost her insurance.So now pysch meds for two weeks. Now she has an pysch appt next week but if she is all tweaked out,that wont happen. I am so tired of this. | ||
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Posts: 1764
Joined: June 27, 2016
Posted: December 7, 2018, 11:44 PM
buggs - that is my fear - for this to go on another 20 years. omg - son came home early tonight. whats going on! lol oh, right, I'm on the roller coaster...
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Posts: 478
Joined: November 9, 2018
Posted: December 8, 2018, 12:13 AM
I'm like bugginme I did so much for so long and it never changed and I just got to the point where I couldn't do it anymore. I was just done and mentally worn out I couldn't think straight. So after she got kicked out of sober living I still have contact with my daughter but I don't even bring her addiction up. It probably sounds cold but after 10 years she's on her own....It's still hard though...
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Posts: 384
Joined: October 25, 2016
Posted: December 8, 2018, 8:07 AM
NY - That is the problem with helping until they get things right. It never seems to happen. Going round and round with no end and no good plan that works. When do we draw the line. When they are 30? When they finally have a car and a job? When they move out? When we retire? I always rationalized paying fines etc. because it was cheaper to do it now than clean up the mess later. That is true but it does teach them we will clean up their mess. Letting things fall apart isn’t ideal either if we make it our job to clean up that mess too. But it is not really our job.
Your son sounds like he is young (20-30?). Maybe he is still learning. The common thread here seems to be that they don’t seem motivated to change. We are working hard to make changes they care nothing about. I think it may be a common character flaw. I tried my best to set my son up for independence. Spent a lot of money on basic stuff so he could live without me. All he had to do was work to pay for it and stay out of trouble. Figure out a way to get by ... girl friend or roommate sharing expenses etc. He couldn’t do it. So what do we do when we have done everything? Walkedon - I sympathize. Glad I don’t have a daughter in this spot. My son could bring home a baby though. He can’t even take care of himself or pets so having a baby would be a disaster. ‘Crisis’ and ‘Tweaking’ are 2 words I really hate. They bring back my PTSD big time and make me remember things I am still trying to forget. Sally Anna - I avoid talking about my son to friends and family because they would never understand letting him go. There are times I think I must be crazy or unfeeling to do such a thing. This forum has shown me that I am not alone and there are people that understand exactly. This post has been edited by BugginMe on December 8, 2018, 8:25 AM -------------------- BUGS | ||
Posts: 521
Joined: August 28, 2016
Posted: December 8, 2018, 11:07 AM
Well, I have to say this to all of you--what you are doing may help temporarily, but in the long run they are the only ones that can make the change.
You say, well maybe when they are 30 or 35 or so on, they will change their lives. I thought that too, but now my son is 47 and still doing and acting as he did 30 years ago. He only contacts us when he wants "unconditional love" or money--haha! Take it from me--what you are doing is typical "mom" behavior when you have a kid that is an addict. It is in our maternal nature. If you look up the statistics of addicts that turn their lives around you will be sadly disappointed. The only thing I have gotten from all my years of "helping" him or "keeping him on track" is to become 72 and find that nothing has changed, except I have less retirement money and my "golden years" aren't so golden! I pray all of you to have more success with your addicts than I did! | ||
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Posts: 1764
Joined: June 27, 2016
Posted: December 8, 2018, 11:18 AM
bugginme - ty so much for posting. my merry-go-round sounds just like yours. it helps to hear that each one of my 'new strategies' have been done before and there's a good probability it wont work. that helps to keep my expectations down and reinforces that it is his change to make. your postings help me to see that I am not wrong, not a failure, I am doing what many others have done. it helps bc I know that what I am doing may not make a lifelong change in my son, but it keeps us OK for now. I am mastering the 'give him just enough without hurting us' technique. our retirement will be the turning point. much like your decision. my son is 29. he started this sometime in college (alcohol and pill parties) got stuck on oxy at about 24. introduced to H at about 26 after rehab in florida. he says that was the worst time of his life - that we sent him to F and it ruined him. (his decisions in F ruined him). yes > character flaw - it's our fault. I see that he has to accept his own decisions - when sober he has to face this.
Dutchess - ty for your support. your example helps me to not put too many eggs in his basket. that this may go on forever, and husband and I need to put ourselves first. This post has been edited by NyToFlorida on December 8, 2018, 11:22 AM | ||
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Posted: December 8, 2018, 5:10 PM
Omg....thanks for this thread!! Seriously, this cat n mouse game we play is exhausting....but I am learning to detach in my own way...little things like re-arranging furniture in my home, boxing my son's things up, etc. All while keeping my mouth closed. My life must go on, as well as the lives of all others affected by his decisions. He no longer has a key to my home, giving him free reign to come and go. Someday, when he texts and asks if he can come to my home, i will be able to text back NO. We are all doing the very best we can....peace and blessings to all of us. Libby
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Posts: 478
Joined: November 9, 2018
Posted: December 8, 2018, 8:33 PM
Thank you all for posting. This thread has helped me alot. It's good to know we are not alone and we understand what each of us is going through. It's very hard to describe it to people who have never experienced it so like bugginme I avoid it with family and friends. They don't get it and their comments are usually painful even though I know they don't intend them to be. So happy to find you all
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Posted: December 9, 2018, 5:11 AM
Its such a fine line between helping and enabling. We had to to let go and leave our son to his life on the street. Its not something i accept or am happy with but there is no option as however bad it has got we have NEVER heard our son say he wants to stop.
He knows that if he ever makes the decision to try and stop then we will be here for him. He knows he will always have a home here with us and we will give him everything he needs; its all here waiting for him. I can even give him a job, money and a car. Nobody in their right mind would refuse this offer but theres the problem; he is not in his right mind. With ADD etc i dont think he was 'normal' before drugs either. He has very rarely EVER chosen the right thing to do. The consequences for those choices have just got bigger as he has got older. I saw something different in his eyes from the age of 5.i am convinced these kids have a harder time of life. I am convinced they fill our prisons too. Who in thier right minds would chose to be a criminal? So my own opinion is this; if my son ever shows real signs of wanting to change - REALLY wanting - then i am ready. If not then anything i do is enabling. And Sallyanna your right about family and friends; unless they are unlucky enough to experience this for themselves they will never need to spend the long months and years we all have educating ourselves about it. They live a completely different life. This post has been edited by Jet0912 on December 9, 2018, 5:26 AM | ||
Posts: 11
Joined: October 8, 2018
Posted: December 9, 2018, 6:45 AM
I think there is no right and wrong way to help them, no matter what we do we will always second guess areselves, I feel ATM that I can only be here for my son, I wish he would move out, he needs to grow as a person, and learn to to be independent, but ATM I don't think he is ready, mentally, he says he is taking thinks one step at a time( ime really not sure what steps they are) my biggest worry is and like all on here, is he going to be like this for the rest of his life, how heart breaking is that, is it duchesschama, that had good points, they are the ones and only them that can make changes, I could write a list of things I'd like my son to do, to help him, but really why? He has to be the one that wants things to change, I keep thinking he has to figure it all out himself, I actually walkedon, that your daughter did well with 5 month clean, let's hope she learns from her slip, take care all you mammas out there
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Posts: 478
Joined: November 9, 2018
Posted: December 9, 2018, 8:04 AM
I think for me there is a sad realization and resignment there is nothing more I can do. I realize she has to save herself and I love her and I hope she does. I'm not angry with her and I don't have resentment towards her. I'm letting her figure it out on her own and experiencing the consequences of her good and bad choices. It's a very scary thing to do however right now it seems like the right thing to do. I think as parents we are all doing the best we can with what we know.
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Posts: 384
Joined: October 25, 2016
Posted: December 9, 2018, 11:37 AM
Jet - my son has actually told me several times that he doesn’t want to stop using at least marijuana. That declaration probably includes other things too. He says we are two different people with two different lives and desires. I wonder how he feels about that now that he has lost everything and we are no longer giving him money. I saw something different in him at an early age. He never was interested in pleasing people or obeying rules. I don’t know what caused this because he had a good childhood. It might be a personality disorder. I have been reading about that and it makes some sense.
Libby - I made it sound like one day I woke up and was done with it all. I did reach my limit rather suddenly but there was a pulling away going on for some years before that. I guess you could say I was taking baby steps toward not enabling. Realizing what I needed and what my son was taking. There was a realization that things weren’t getting any better. A period of trying to figure out what to do. It was a transition from my full on ‘mother mode’ to where I am now. There was a huge learning curve for me. I fought against what I felt I had to do but one day there could be no more rationalizing and excuses made for him. I feel like I really saw the person he had become and could no longer take care of this man. Especially by putting myself in harms way or through my own sacrifices. -------------------- BUGS | ||
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Posted: December 9, 2018, 2:49 PM
Buggin me.....absolutely...a huge, arcing leaning curve. It always helps to read of others' experiences, and know we aren't losing our flippin minds. The realization with my son of how many drugs are involved, frequency, starting age, etc is enough to make me stop breathing. It is too heavy. I maybe never knew my son "clean" after the age of 14-15. Now at 36, it could very well be too late. For him, not for me. The odd thing is, he seems to be annoyed that my life is moving on. Once I stopped taking the "bait", got very quiet and really began believing a parent's love is not a strong enough motivator to force recovery, there was a sort of peace. As always though, the roller coaster. Thanks to all for the support, Libby
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Posts: 1764
Joined: June 27, 2016
Posted: December 9, 2018, 10:43 PM
It must have been 100 times harder for the older parents. As there was a huge lack of resources and awareness of addiction issues - 10 - 15 - 20 years ago. I feel fortunate that I did find needed resources in NarAnon, reading books, this message board, local recovery center, and so much to search and read on internet.
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Posts: 195
Joined: July 6, 2018
Posted: December 13, 2018, 3:33 PM
Update. Daughter feels real remorse about relapsing.
For my part I managed not to try to save her and also not to condemn her. She is trying again, back on her pysch meds,going to IOP and therapy. Small steps, I'm trying to stay calm.Trying not to be hopeful or overly vigilant. | ||
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Posts: 478
Joined: November 9, 2018
Posted: December 13, 2018, 9:03 PM
Walkedon happy to hear your daughter is choosing to get back on track. You sound like you handled it really well. Thank you for the update and take good care : )
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